John McCain: “Not too important”

**jaypeesmith** · 06-12-2008, 04:23 PM

06-12-2008 03:04 PM

As you are probably aware, television and the internet are buzzing from John McCain’s recent comments. On an interview on the Today Show, John McCain was asked if he could now, as a result of the surge, estimate when troops could come home. McCain offered the following:

“No, but that’s not too important. What’s important is casualties in Iraq. Americans are in South Korea. Americans are in Japan. American troops are in Germany. That’s all fine. American casualties, and the ability to withdraw. We will be able to withdraw. … But the key to it is we don’t want any more Americans in harm’s way.”

Not too important? You have people who may have been put on as much as their fifth tour in Iraq but, it’s “not too important” how long people have to be away from their families. Even if some day, many years from now, we get to a point where casualties are non-existent, we still have the fact that we will likely require a significant troop presence there to protect the huge embassy and military bases being built there, as well as protecting all the corporations that are looking to feed at the trough there.

This means that military people will continue to be asked to keep the burdens on their families to support a failed policy because George Bush and, now, John McCain tell us that some day this will all be worth it.

However, try telling people like the families of Marlin Rockhold or LaVena Johnson that when they were coming home was not too important. Both of them died after Bush declared “Mission Accomplished”. For their families, the date on which they came home decided whether or not they would ever see them alive again.

Of course, in John McCain’s world, war is an ideal state of being, allowing him some shining glory. However, for people serving and their families, it’s about sacrifice, hardship and a constant fear of that knock on the door from someone telling you your loved one is coming home in a casket.

So, no Senator McCain, it is imporatant. It’s important to a lot of people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSaH2uyWz_I

Also, here’s the interview in a fuller context to show that it’s still no less worse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvgEKExrOKE

**TUCKER** · 06-12-2008, 06:05 PM

J P:

I only scanned through your response to McCain's comments about "Not too Important." I understand your POV, but you must remember McCain, who I don't support btw, is a veteran and veterans think differently about war and battle situations. Some people forget he was a POW for several years and that affects his thinking on military issues.

While his comments might seem callous about the importance of the losses, etc, due to our presence in the countries he named, they were indicative of his mindset. I doubt either he or Obama hope to see our kids in the line of fire any longer than necessary, but both of them are trying to devise a program of withdrawal with honor. I'm sure McCain realizes we might've bit off more than we could chew when we decided to go into the affairs of the middle east with a military presence. Both presidential candidates are trying to avoid another VIET NAM fiasco, especially considering the physical and fiscal investments we've already made in the middle east under the Bush administration. When we first went in there Bush made a promise to those who'd lost family members in the world trade center disaster that the atrocity would be avenged. Years after that tragedy hes still making the same promise, but only to a new group of survivors.

We must remember that long before he was politician, McCain was a COMBAT soldier. I relate to him on that level only!

**jaypeesmith** · 06-12-2008, 11:49 PM

Tucker, with all due respect, McCain was a naval aviator, not a combat soldier. He was shot down over Vietnam when he was captured. He wasn't marching through rice paddies, like my father did when he volunteered for Vietnam at age 17.

So while, unlike me, John McCain was in the military, it wasn't like he was leading charges over a hill or, like my father, walking point with an M-16 or having to watch his friends die from bullets and grenades feet from him.

Furthermore, as he came from a privileged background, McCain has never had to worry about whether or not his family would have to go on welfare because of his extended time away.

I doubt wholeheartedly that McCain is as much concerned about honor as he is with his last shot at being president, which seems to be why he, as a torture victim and former torture opponent, now supports torture.

John McCain, like George Bush, seems to look to solidify his place in history by leading young men to early deaths or dismemberment but can't tell them what the end-game is or what success really looks like.

In the end, this is about McCain looking out for McCain, not McCain looking out for his country.

**TUCKER** · 06-13-2008, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaypeesmith

Tucker, with all due respect, McCain was a naval aviator, not a combat soldier. He was shot down over Vietnam when he was captured.

The man survived a direct hit and a plane crash J P. The man survived years of torture as a POW. The man survived the military period. If none of that is combat, what is? You're putting me in a position to defend not only a barbarian, but a GOP, how humiliating! LMAO

Quote:

He wasn't marching through rice paddies, like my father did when he volunteered for Vietnam at age 17.

So while, unlike me, John McCain was in the military, it wasn't like he was leading charges over a hill or, like my father, walking point with an M-16 or having to watch his friends die from bullets and grenades feet from him.

I hit republic of Viet Nam at the ripe ol age of 20. I didn't do the kind of things you relate everyday, but I did them. I'll bet your father, like me, will recall that period of his life as one of the darkest periods in his history, as I do in my own. Unlike your father, who at 17 had to've volunteered, I was drafted screaming and kicking out of college. I've often said while the army on the one hand robbed me of 33 mos of the most productive yrs of my life, it probably saved my life. My civil, militant activities probably would've lead to long term incarceration or death had I not been drafted when I was.

I find myself in full agreement with the remainder of your post. Especially the part about privileges and welfare.

**cc5k** · 06-13-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaypeesmith

Furthermore, as he came from a privileged background, McCain has never had to worry about whether or not his family would have to go on welfare because of his extended time away.

Is that something today's troops have to worry about? I thought they got paid MORE while in Iraq (hazard pay). Unless they're blowing their money on harry Iraqi hookers, the family at home should be better off financially while they're over there. ....unless I'm overlooking something?

**TUCKER** · 06-13-2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc5k

Is that something today's troops have to worry about? I thought they got paid MORE while in Iraq (hazard pay). Unless they're blowing their money on harry Iraqi hookers, the family at home should be better off financially while they're over there. ....unless I'm overlooking something?

LAWDY LAWDY LAWDY! What is the world coming to. Thats about the 4th time I've agreed with you this year. Ohhhhhh my, someone catch me, I feel a bit of the vapors coming on! LMAO

**BISHOP** · 06-13-2008, 08:00 AM

I'm not an expert and wasn't in the service long enough but, the pay in the military has never been great unless you are an officer. It's not a 9 to 5 gig.

JP, I feel ya on McCain. I'm sure you've seen his ads on his military background...his father ...his grandfather. Yeah, that's nice but, lets see the one on the economy. lol

TGIF

**jaypeesmith** · 06-13-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc5k

Is that something today's troops have to worry about? I thought they got paid MORE while in Iraq (hazard pay). Unless they're blowing their money on harry Iraqi hookers, the family at home should be better off financially while they're over there. ....unless I'm overlooking something?

Yes, you are REALLY overlooking it.

Here's the base pay for enlisted folks:

2008 Basic Pay Chart for U.S. Military Enlisted Members (click here)

Oh, and here's the big whopping combat pay:

Combat Zones and Immiment Danger Pay (Combat Pay) (click here)

A member assigned to or deployed to a combat zone receives "combat pay" (officially called "immiment danger pay") at the rate of $225.00 per month. In some locations, immiment danger pay is paid only for duty on the ground, and in other areas, ground, airspace, or duty aboard a ship at sea qualify.

Being assigned or deployed to a combat zone also triggers a tax advantage in some locations. Congress and/or the President can designated combat zones as "Tax Exempt" areas. Earnings received while in these combats zone are excluded from taxable income. (NOTE: This only applies to Federal Income Tax Withholding (FITW). A military member still pays social security taxes and Medicare Tax. Whether or not state tax is excluded is up to the individual state.

This exclusion is unlimited for enlisted members and is limited to the maximum enlisted pay amount for officers and warrant officers.

If you spend a single qualifying day in the combat zone, your pay for the entire month is excluded from taxable income, and you receive $225 in combat pay for that month.

They are not exactly rolling in the dough.

**jaypeesmith** · 06-13-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUCKER

The man survived a direct hit and a plane crash J P. The man survived years of torture as a POW. The man survived the military period. If none of that is combat, what is? You're putting me in a position to defend not only a barbarian, but a GOP, how humiliating!

McCain was indeed a prisoner and suffered during his time in captivity. He was not tortured during all of his time there but, indeed, he was tortured, which is why I have no respect for him condoning torture these days. But, while I respect the fact that he was in a war zone, he had a job that involved much less risk than those on the ground dodging bullets and traps. I'm also sure that during his 5+ years in captivity, if he had heard a presidential candidate say that it was "not too important" when POWs would be coming home, he would have been devastated.

**TUCKER** · 06-13-2008, 01:53 PM

"if he had heard a presidential candidate say that it was "not too important" when POWs would be coming home, he would have been devastated." Also, you've got to remember there were bullets and traps in the air in Viet Nam!

You are absolutely correct here and I agree 100%. Besides ours is not so much a debate, or disagreement, but more a discussion of relevant facts as we each know them to be. As you know, I'm not big on stats, data and the like. I usually speak from first hand experiences, or common sense. Believe me when I tell you that $225.00 a month for combat pay is well earned, no matter how much time you spend there.

Now a guy like McCain, who was a pilot, is making a nice piece of change anyway to begin with. Hes a pilot for Gods sake! Now add that extra $225 a month combat pay to his monthly pilot's salary and hes drawing a nice piece of change every month. The military's money is never taxed and it shouldn't be. They're not paid nearly enough for what they're asked to do, in any capacity. When your term of service is done what do you get, a GI Bill that is so full of bullshyt promises and loopholes that to get anything from it, you'd need Johnny Cochran. The only thing that is almost guaranteed, is a hole in a national cemetery in a city near you! And someone told me recently, that the survivors are now expected to pay for the vault! Can you believe that?

Being a COMBAT vet, I will always side with a vet of any stature. I've been there and done that and I know we are not just like everyone else and I will never allow anyone who hasn't been there to put me in no category with everyone else. My service to this country either by choice or by force, makes me different! I'm speaking in general btw JP, I'm not referring to you or anyone in particular.

Often we combat vets will make the distinction between a peace time vet and a combat vet, but we have earned that right and priviledge to do so. Most of us will defend a vet no matter what his status against anyone or anything that has not served and if you've served, you've paid! Those who haven't need to remember that every Veteran's Day and Memorial Day! Believe me a great price has been paid for what ever freedoms any of us enjoy!

I say again I aint no McCain or GOP fan, but I'll defend him in public like he is a brother. Don't matter the color, the age, the genre. Now in private I might kick his ass for being anything different from me, but the public personna is another thing altogether! LMAO

**jaypeesmith** · 06-13-2008, 05:57 PM

Tucker,

I can respect your position but, my rant's not about you. It seems to me that you're being honorable. McCain, to me, is a whole other story. It seems to me that he's not showing enough concern for his "brothers in arms".

**cc5k** · 06-13-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaypeesmith

Yes, you are REALLY overlooking it.

Here's the base pay for enlisted folks:

2008 Basic Pay Chart for U.S. Military Enlisted Members (click here)

Oh, and here's the big whopping combat pay:

Combat Zones and Immiment Danger Pay (Combat Pay) (click here)

A member assigned to or deployed to a combat zone receives "combat pay" (officially called "immiment danger pay") at the rate of $225.00 per month. In some locations, immiment danger pay is paid only for duty on the ground, and in other areas, ground, airspace, or duty aboard a ship at sea qualify.

Being assigned or deployed to a combat zone also triggers a tax advantage in some locations. Congress and/or the President can designated combat zones as "Tax Exempt" areas. Earnings received while in these combats zone are excluded from taxable income. (NOTE: This only applies to Federal Income Tax Withholding (FITW). A military member still pays social security taxes and Medicare Tax. Whether or not state tax is excluded is up to the individual state.

This exclusion is unlimited for enlisted members and is limited to the maximum enlisted pay amount for officers and warrant officers.

If you spend a single qualifying day in the combat zone, your pay for the entire month is excluded from taxable income, and you receive $225 in combat pay for that month.

They are not exactly rolling in the dough.

Thanks for the info.

Yeah... $225/month extra would not be enough for me to stay overseas. It would have to be more in the ballpark of $8-10K/month for me to even consider it.

But I think it's still true that in comparing combat pay to regular armed service pay, they are a little better off (financially) while earning combat pay.